I love nearly everything about RTM except The Checkbox! I have a lifetime of UI experience which says "check things off when they are done". I hate to admit it, but I really struggle with this idea of checking something to add information or status to it, then unchecking it to do something else.

I would much prefer and edit button or some such for adding info. Then the checkbox could work as I expect it to. :-)

Oh, no, please no edit button.
I really like the way of selecting the task(s) I want to change by the checkboxes. I so can apply a priority to more than just one task.
You see, where you want to minimize the required actions for one task only you have to keep in mind that for lots of tasks your prefered ui behavior would cause uncountable actions.

Just my two cents.

oh yes, i really don't like the checkboxes. I would rather select an items by clicking on it and using the checkbox for completion. plus, the checkbox automatically stays on a tast once you've entered, and then the one you enter next and before you know it, they're all check and any action you do is now done to all checked. We really need to re-think the checkbox. thanks!

yeah I agree, hate the checkbox too, when I work on a software project I enter new tasks and they go to the obttom, then check one task, click complete and woah, 4 tasks completed!
There's always confusino wth editing when multiple taks are selecged without m mode, as i move the mose to click on a field (I know there are hkeys but I don't always use them) the task that is to be edited changes.

I think the selection that is more conventional (selecting an item clears previous selection, shift click and ctrol click to sleect ranges/multiple items) would be more convenient...

Oops, sorry for the spelling, I hurt my fingerz when I was grabbing the swimming pool wall to not drown today so typing is kinda kinky... :)

Same opinion. When I first started using RTM, I searched through the whole Settings area looking for the option not to have the checkbox ticked by default. For some reason my mind doesn't like it, and each time I create a new task, it goes "why is that checkbox ticked". :-)

Simply for the sake of balance, I've been using RTM daily for a year now, and I am perfectly accustomed to the UI of the check box. It clearly confuses people, usually newcomers, but I just wanted to add to this discussion that there are those of us who don't find it misleading or ambiguous.

agreed...could be better UI...

Been using it daily for only 3 weeks but using it lots and the checkbox approach continues to feel wrong to me. I hear what you say ranbarton but it feels to me like its a bit of poor interface design that eventually each of us gets used to if we keep using the service. Keep it up tho RTM, overall a fab product.

Just in the process of migrating over to RtM from Backpack. Love the app - it's really cool. I have to say I agree with most of the above - I think a click on the row should select the item for editing like now (change the row color, etc), but the checkbox should be a shortcut to 'complete'. I'd love to see that. I'm almost tempted to hack it to do this. :)

I like the way it works, however, I work from the Google gadget most of the time and complete tasks there. Click diamond for task options, click complete / postpone / edit. Done.

When I am working in RTM directly I am frequently using multi-edit mode to change groups of tasks. Checking / selecting multiple tasks is natural in that mode.

I like the check boxes in general. I wouldn't mind clicking one more time in response to the question "Do you really want to delete (postpone, etc) 12 items"?

Don't think you need the extra click.

If you make a mistake you can "Undo" the action.

Just tested postponing and undoing 3 tasks. Worked fine.

I think we can make a compromise by saying that we can select the tasks without checking them; in other words, when we select some tasks to act upon them by editing, we may just select them (change background color) yet not make them checked in the checkbox thingy.

Then we can complete tasks rapidly by clicking the checkbox.

Personally it is not too much of a problem to me but it could be useful to just check it. My two cents, hope this helps.

Steven Bao

late entry to this thread - I'm new to RTM but the list behaviour including checkbox is taking some getting used to - not a good sign. my preference - selecting the item does *not* check the box by default. In particular, for a new task - why would you want the box checked? what further action are you likely to take? The implication is: all the "more actions" should be defined at the time you create the task - not as part of a different activity. In particular you need to be able to set the initial priority when creating a new task.

the colour (floating the mouse over) and the checkbox in many processes do the same thing at once, as they move you check, and the one in the middle you didnt want is the one checked!! it is odd, maynbe it is a newbie thing but i wonder whether, given that one wants to add criteria for most new tasks one types in, it shouldnt take the cursor there first when you hit enter for the task title. that way you just start putting in times tags and locations etc, and i you donb want to it is one click out of the box, the other way round is more complex

Adding my voice to those who'd like RTM to use the checkbox to mark a task as complete and use highlighting to select single or multiple tasks. This is how ALL my other apps work.

As great as RTM is, defying well established UI conventions is bound to baffle and ultimately annoy many new users, as it did me.

My 2 kopecks.

I get used to the current checkbox functionality, of course, but I could live without it, too. I expect it hurts newbies, though, so I expect some people to try rmilk and then dropping it because of checkboxes.

So we could just use a color (or a border, or something) to indicate selected state. And you could make an option: checkboxes for selection vs chechboxes for completion. And have conventional checkboxes by default for all the newbies, but leave traditional rmilk checkboxes for all the old users, so they can switch to conventional themselves, if they feel like it.

Okay so here's the deal. When you first create a task, all you've done is written a name.

The task stays checked so you can immediately continue to define the task by setting a priority, tag(s), notes, due dates, etc.

This was by design. I enjoy pressing "t" to create a new task, typing in the name of the task an hitting enter. Then immediately following it up with "1, 2 or 3" to set the priority, "d" for a due date, "s" for tags, and "y" for notes. (There are others available but those are the ones I mostly use.)

If you want to directly manipulate the newly created task, you WANT it to be checked!

For those of you who are using it as a basic task list without any of the fancy stuff, just press "n" to uncheck all the tasks on the page.

At the very least, the checkbox should 'uncheck' itself when adding a new task.

gms8994 - there are any number of times when I add multiple taks, type m to turn on multi edit, and add tags to all of them. That's a reason, in my book, not to have the box uncheck itself. Clearly, the check box reveals the wide range of styles various RTM users have in their manner of using the site.

ranbarton -

My problem is that when I do multi-edit like that, the values from one task overwrite the values of the others. I.E.: 3 tasks have different due dates, I multi-edit them to set a tag, all of them have the same 'new' due date.

I think sbao and rrraven have it right. And I think it all boils down to the difference between checked and selected.

For example, lets say I create 2 tasks and want to modify the first one. Under the current system both tasks are checked, and the second task is selected for modification. So, I have to click once on the 1st task, which unchecks it, then click on it again, which then checks it and selects it for modification. It isn't that complicated, but its not terribly intuitive either for what should be a very easy job. And we still have the posibillity of accidental multi-completes, deletes, priority changes, etc because multiple

So, my 2cents on what the UI should be like:

Task selection should work just like a file manager. Everyone is used to that. A single click on any task should select (change the color of) just that task, and you should be able to shift-click or ctrl-click to select multiple tasks for modification (no more 'm' needed, no more being confused about which mode you are in). Completeing a task should be a simple one-click procedure which is just filling in a check box on the task line, or hitting a key if selecting multiple tasks.

I'd say it's up in the air if you want new tasks to be selected (as if they were ctrl-clicked) or unselected. Because it seems to depend on if the user is a power user like ranbarton or one of the 'less is more' crowd. Either way you set it, using my above UI ideas, the remedy would be a single click or shift-click.

Khill, I like your comparison to a file manager, as that would be familiar to both Windows and Mac users. While I have grown used to RTM's widgets, I have had my share of multi-completes and multi-attribute changes, so I'd be very happy to suggest to Emily and Omar that this inspired suggestion be given strong consideration. It would address a recurring complaint on these boards with a a solution that would, I suspect, be widely accepted among RTM users.

khill, I do also agree with you. I think most (if not all) of us would be happy with the following scenario:


__PERFECT SOLUTION TO THE CHECKBOX UI CONFUSION________________________________________

• Tasks can be marked as complete by clicking the checkbox.

• Tasks can be selected with a single click while remaining unchecked. Then a CTRL+Click or SHIFT+Click would select/deselect others.

• A toggle in the settings tab would allow you to choose if previous new tasks should remain selected or only the newest one.
___________________________________________________________________________________________

it kills me. please fix it.

Yes Yes Yes.... please change it!

I can't agree more!!

I'm a list-maniac and the best part of my life is to TICK tasks off lists!

Please bring back my pleasure and implement deanhouseholder's idea!

would love to see checkbox behavior align more closely with checked = done. would also love to see a task in "edit" mode rather than have each atomic piece of task metadata (tags, due date, etc) editable separately. let me use tab to move from field to field!

Yea, i'll throw in my 2 cents on this: the checkbox makes it seem like I am completing a task. I'm not sure of an interface element that would allow the user to select more than one task a time (like the checkbox does) to replace it, though :(

If Dean's solution is possible with wide browser support it sounds great to me!

J

yes please, please, please, please make checkbox = task complete.

I've stopped using RTM because of this fundamental UI annoyance.

Even though all the substitute products available out there are otherwise inferior, this issue just kills RTM for me.

Was just checking back now in hope that you'd seen the light on the checkbox, but alas, not yet. Will look in again in another couple months...

Perhaps an option to do this could be put in? Or an image of a checkbox in front of tasks that would complete them, whereas the actual checkbox would still select them?

One more vote fore the deanhouseholder suggestion!

i like kkaland's suggestion. 2 colums, one for "task is selected" one for "task completed."

Note one subtlety here. "Check box means task complete" would have the effect of keeping completed tasks in the list, whereas currently they are removed.

cf: http://www.rememberthemilk.com/forums/ideas/2472/

Just getting started with RTM and love everything except for the checkbox, as it really gets in the way of operation via keyboard commands. the fact that each time i create a new task I have to walk through the list and uncheck it after editing the details is very frustrating. It's also confusing the a checked box and the ">" icon both indicate a sort of "current" task.

Would prefer if the checkbox was unchecked when creating a new task, and, if nothing were checked, the edit panel applied to the task currently pointed to by the ">" arrow.

I wouldn't mind checkbox = complete so long as I could easily select the task by clicking elsewhere in the box.

I definitely agree that having to hotkey n to deselect all or uncheck a task after creation or manipulation is annoying (I think there's a thread in the Idea portion about this though).

... Still, there is some satisfaction in being able to hit that Complete button!

AAAAAAAGGGGHHHH... .the checkbox is stopping me rolling this out to my entire team.

If I check the box -- fine; but if I edit a task, then edit another, WHY ARE THEY STILL BOTH CHECKED?

PLEASE FIX THIS. It's an extra step to deselect when all I did was edit. After all, it doesn't edit due dates or tags to all the checked ones... only the complete or postpone thing does this.

[To all pro users: disregard.]
I think it's funny how riled up we all get about RTM features. I mean, I'm totally guilty of it too, but after all this is a FREE service. I definitely agree with the idea laid out in this thread, but to all RTM staff, I think a quick thank you is in order. RTM rules and the fact that it's free really floors me everytime I log in.
If you all can get to changing this, that'd be tight, because it's definitely annoying and an issue. But if not, this tool is still far better than anything else out there and thanks for having it be free!

Is it a bug that changing the due date on several checked tasks doesn't work? I'd agree with most people and have a task unchecked when finished with that task. I've deleted several numerous times and not noticed and lost the immediate undo. Still commited to trying tho'

I think the problem is that clicking on a task does two things at once: it changes it's checkbox state and - if it's checked - it shows it's properties on the right.

Example of misuse:
1) I click on task A: it becomes checked and I can edit it's properties -> OK
2) I click on task B: same for task B -> OK
3) now I want to edit the properties of task A again, so I click on task A: it becomes unchecked and I see the properties of task B -> I'm lost: I did not want to uncheck task A, and I did not want to edit task B

Clicking on a checkbox should check (or uncheck) the box, and nothing else.
Clicking on a task name should give access to it's properties on the right, and nothing else (even if it's not checked, because the two features should not be correlated).

(note: if the checkbox area is too small, the task area could be divided differently, e.g. clicking on the checkbox or name could change the checkbox state, and clicking on the right part with the due date and note icon could display the task properties)

I personally don't even use the checkboxes besides for selecting, but why not make this more file system like instead of using the checkboxes.